tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post5515754233293142648..comments2024-03-01T01:50:12.850-05:00Comments on Pocketfuls: Not Every Child is GiftedLisahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-21573195158405894342014-04-28T21:26:55.798-04:002014-04-28T21:26:55.798-04:00So many comments here, some I agree with and some ...So many comments here, some I agree with and some I do not. But I can say this. I am a parent of two gifted children who struggle with their overactive minds every minute and hour and day of the week. The problem with being gifted is the mind is far too active, and it makes it very hard for them to just let go and try (without annalysing). It is a very difficult existance and can cause great anxiety. Their minds are just far too mature for their age and social abilities. There is a special need here that needs to be addressed, it is not just 'being smart'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-39018162291578270672014-03-25T20:45:48.600-04:002014-03-25T20:45:48.600-04:00Glennon started her post with the story of a frien...Glennon started her post with the story of a friend whose daughter was not one of the children at school identified as "gifted" in the clinical sense. That is the context within which she framed her entire post. If she had simply written about how all children have gifts and talents without mentioning that detail first, I don't think anyone would have taken issue with her post.<br /><br />I agree that there should be a different term than "gifted" used to describe children with advanced cognitive skills (and I said as much in my post). No matter what we call it, though, I think there will always be people who don't believe that children with high IQs deserve anything outside of the regular curriculum. I wish more people understood that when we recognize gifted students' rights to special education support, it doesn't mean those kids are "better than" anyone else -- it just means that they're different from the norm. Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-50369953946403643712014-03-25T17:57:08.624-04:002014-03-25T17:57:08.624-04:00Newsflash: There is more than one dictionary defin...Newsflash: There is more than one dictionary definition of "gifted." Glennon was referring to a different definition than you are. <br />The "gifted" community needs a better clinical term -- one that doesn't ooze "better than." Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-82838335682862729252014-03-25T17:26:19.806-04:002014-03-25T17:26:19.806-04:00YESSSS
If we changed the title "Gifted"...YESSSS <br />If we changed the title "Gifted" to a title that was synonymous with "wired differently" there would be no accusations of being elitist! <br />A child of lower cognitive ability NEEDS extra support and has a different learning style due to how HIS brain functions. Swing to the opposite side of the bell curve and you have the same amount of differences but without understanding, support or even recognition. These children (and adults) are DIFFERENT, not better, not superior, but human beings that fit a different support model, learning style or simply just a different shape than the standard round hole in which they are being forced to fit!Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-59285419479492166802014-03-24T10:55:17.388-04:002014-03-24T10:55:17.388-04:00Nowhere in my post did I say that academic ability...Nowhere in my post did I say that academic ability is more important than any other ability, or that science benefits society more than art. I was discussing the difference between children "having gifts" (which I believe ALL children do, and those gifts can be in a wide variety of areas), and "being gifted" by definition (which refers to advanced cognitive abilities, and which is much more complex than simply "being smart" or doing well in academics). I agree that schools could do a better job of recognizing different gifts and offering a wider range of learning experiences to nurture them in children. But not every child is in need of advanced programs,whether it be in academics or arts or athletics. Many children who "have gifts" of intelligence, of athletic ability, of musical talent, of drawing or painting skills, will thrive in a typical school setting because they still fall within the range of "normal". When we talk about the truly "gifted" of any field, we are talking about those who are the real "outliers" (for lack of a better word), the ones whose abilities deviate significantly from the norm in an advanced way, and according to that definition, no, not every child is gifted.<br /><br />Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-7185678238043555492014-03-24T10:30:49.053-04:002014-03-24T10:30:49.053-04:00Anonymous, I am sorry to hear that your son's ...Anonymous, I am sorry to hear that your son's experience in school in his early years was so difficult, and I'm very glad that things have become so much better for him now that he is receiving an appropriate education. I can relate -- it was in Grade 1 that my youngest son started experiencing a great deal of anxiety about school, and we sought a private psychoeducational assessment because we suspected he was gifted and his needs weren't being met. Being identified and receiving enrichment opportunities at school has made a world of difference for my son as well -- he is happy and engaged in learning. I think it's difficult for people who don't have experience with a struggling gifted child to understand how crucial that support is to their development and mental/emotional well-being.Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-24522930061724650672014-03-24T10:14:51.901-04:002014-03-24T10:14:51.901-04:00I'm glad that my post has given us all the cha...I'm glad that my post has given us all the chance to share our opinions and have some healthy debate on this issue, but I think it's important that we do so respectfully, without resorting to the name-calling and personal attacks I've seen in some of the comments here. Thanks!<br />Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-39696340558855001892014-03-24T10:08:45.561-04:002014-03-24T10:08:45.561-04:00@S~, we are confronted with the same issues you ar...@S~, we are confronted with the same issues you are. It is increadibly frustrating. I don't knwo what the solution is, but I am greatful to know that we are not the only alone in our frustration. I too feel sure that if something, anything, were being done to meet my child's academic needs, that behaviour would simply fall off the radar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-2618179861328806472014-03-24T09:16:44.877-04:002014-03-24T09:16:44.877-04:00I want to clarify that in no way to I expect the s...I want to clarify that in no way to I expect the school system to meet all of the needs of gifted children. I spend a great deal of time and effort seeking out enrichment opportunities for my own children in places other than school, so that they do have the chance to be with like-minded children where they can explore their interests in a challenging way. (I have written about this several other times elsewhere within this blog.) But I still believe that schools have a responsibility to do what they can to provide an appropriate education for all students (and that includes the cognitively advanced ones). <br /><br />I find your statement that we shouldn't give students any special considerations simply for being born "smart" as offensive as if you had said that we shouldn't give students any special considerations simply for being born "dumb". Neither adjective is an accurate description of the much more complex reality of being an exceptional child.<br /><br />Of course all children should be valued as equally worthy human beings despite their differences. School curriculums are designed with the average learner in mind, though, so in order to show those who lie significantly outside of the norm that they are valued and that they belong, too, we need to at least make an attempt to meet some of their needs. Lisahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081765635682817940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-27176249977702308472014-03-23T03:56:50.854-04:002014-03-23T03:56:50.854-04:00Well Lucky YOU AWIV! How special of you to tout yo...Well Lucky YOU AWIV! How special of you to tout your successes and assume that the rest of us haven't changed schools, haven't advocated for our child who struggles as Anonymous' does - YOU are what is wrong in "gifted parenting" - you are just as arrogant and elitist as you accuse those of us working tirelessly for the riches you've been fortunate enough to find. Bravo! My son has struggled similarly to Anonymous - has been suicidal as early as age 8 - we have advocated for different teachers, we have switched schools, we have fought with principal after principal, we have advocated for his needs til we are blue in the face! The closest we've gotten is a SPED label to "deal" with his behavior issues. We supplement what he doesn't get at home and in after school programs - you are piece of work to sit back and assume that those who are still struggling haven't worked as hard and as tirelessly, and haven't sacrificed as much as you simply because we haven't had the results you've been fortunate enough to find. You are what is wrong with this world you self serving, judgmental POS! S~https://www.blogger.com/profile/15175902656555247287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-26124223282761223082014-03-23T03:44:26.824-04:002014-03-23T03:44:26.824-04:00As a parent it is an up hill battle to get the pub...As a parent it is an up hill battle to get the public school system to consider a different path... believe me, I'm doing everything I know to do and yet my son is under served in school every single day and I lose time from my much needed job in my continual attempts to advocate for my son's needs... the school focuses on his poor behavior allowing his academics to fall without even considering the notion that meeting his academic needs will more than likely correct the behavior problems. When intervention is met with extreme resistance (an in a magnate school for HGT students no less) then what is a parent to do? Because my efforts are met with deaf ears, am I not performing in my role as you suggest?S~https://www.blogger.com/profile/15175902656555247287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-42472481558643174472014-03-22T22:57:33.889-04:002014-03-22T22:57:33.889-04:00*nods* Exactly.*nods* Exactly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-22601975090433357282014-03-22T17:54:52.553-04:002014-03-22T17:54:52.553-04:00If everyone would simply understand that "gif...If everyone would simply understand that "gifted" is not a synonym for "smart", many of these arguments would never occur. Most people would love for their child to be "smart", but many of us with "gifted" children know that life would be so much easier for them if they were "smart" instead of "gifted".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-9744282190688271002014-03-22T15:27:56.471-04:002014-03-22T15:27:56.471-04:00Who said gifted classes are elitist? Ideally ther...Who said gifted classes are elitist? Ideally there would be some classes for the gifted. What is elitist is considering yourself superior for being more/better informed than someone else (without a clue as to their experience - only that you differ in opinion with them on solutions) who has a different opinion. An example of someone acting as an elitist would be one who in order to look more superior would put another down for having a low self-esteem, claim they are embarrassing themselves or for offending even themselves (because they actually ARE involved) in stating a logical argument that is different. For the record I am indignant but NOT embarrassed at all no matter what level you stoop to in an attempt to demean me. You are so unaware of how you are meeting the definition of an elitist AND a bully. I am profoundly grateful to not have membership in your society.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-80852152421404938252014-03-22T14:59:43.640-04:002014-03-22T14:59:43.640-04:00You do not think this statement is an elitist one?...You do not think this statement is an elitist one? "gifted students have the greatest potential to change the world and do incredible things (a huge RESPONSIBILITY)"<br /><br />I am assuming here you are using your own definition of gifted as being those with high IQ. Really? <br /><br />And how does raising a well balanced profoundly "gifted" or very high IQ (whatever label you want to give it) child to the age of 18 in 6 different public school systems in addition to home school and private school experiences not qualify me for having "intimate" familiarity with something and be entitled to my hard earned opinion? Wow! How dare you minimize my experience as being less informed than yours! My child is negatively affected by people like you who miss the fact that Usain Bolt gained LITTLE in the classroom that contributed to his world record and that there is NO AP test that has a child sit down and paint a picture. That runner and that painter grew their talents outside the classroom - and so should those with profoundly high IQs.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-26620601668359010042014-03-22T14:42:58.937-04:002014-03-22T14:42:58.937-04:00And what is your point in bringing up Usain Bolt&#...And what is your point in bringing up Usain Bolt's achievement? Did he have differentiated classroom education that assisted him in achieving his world record? His example actually is evidence for my argument - he got his needs met outside of the classroom and is not on a platform to ask public schools across the world to create highly develop advanced running programs for elementary school students. AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-24285757014415307212014-03-22T14:33:49.189-04:002014-03-22T14:33:49.189-04:00"For those who don't understand, "gi..."For those who don't understand, "gifted" is ENTIRELY based on IQ." Then you go on to yell, "AND WE ARE ALL GIFTED" so now you do have me confused. We do not all have a very high IQ. I think fighting over semantics is missing the point. I get the IQ piece. I also get that there is no comparable tests used to allow differentiation in the classroom for the gifted musician that leads to a path where their needs are met in regular public school.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-69204983660629568002014-03-22T14:25:42.870-04:002014-03-22T14:25:42.870-04:00Do you realize how elitist your very first sentenc...Do you realize how elitist your very first sentence sounds? Using hyperbolic wording like "anyone" and "no significant experience" and resorting to demeaning name calling like "ignorant" means you argument will likely fall flat so instead of having an open discussion with those whose awareness you might want to raise and to persuade to think differently, you are now in an "us" (the elite) versus "them" (the stupid) battle which I guess you will always win. Congratulations.<br /><br />btw I had to correct a typo in my original comment for fear you would ridicule me for a misspelling. I felt bullied by you but am happy to say it did not prevent me from letting you know how your first sentence made me feel.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-88794667358223251012014-03-22T14:19:59.987-04:002014-03-22T14:19:59.987-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-6532826835956547592014-03-22T14:08:32.180-04:002014-03-22T14:08:32.180-04:00I was talking about the original piece sounding el...I was talking about the original piece sounding elitist. It is the "superiority" thing that bothers me the most - as if the suffering of a cognitively gifted student is more important than other children's suffering. Suffering is universal. A shame response is the same for the kid called stupid as it is for the kid called nerd/geek. Nobody's suffering should be held in higher esteem. It is as if the champions of the cognitively gifted think these kids should live in a world devoid of struggle and bending to their needs and that is unrealistic. I have one highly gifted child so I needed support and information in order to understand, advocate for and meet her needs but had to stop getting articles delivered to me by the Hogies site because they regularly had me puzzled. I felt like I was being told to beat my head against a wall. I do now totally get why so many teachers cringe when they have to deal with the parents of highly gifted children. Here's the thing - they are not paid enough nor do they have the resources or even training to accomplish what you are asking. Please give them a break. My 18 year old child has had exactly two teachers that truly were themselves gifted in teaching and managed classrooms to cater to multiple intelligences. They are a very rare breed indeed! The majority of teachers simply cannot meet each individual child's different needs and it is elitist to think they should. It is unrealistic with the child/teacher ratio and all the fiscal and common core constraints on our public school teachers to expect that they should be superheroes. It is not going to happen in school and it is not going to happen in life that the world will cater to everyone’s every needs. These kids need strong resiliency, grit and emotional coping skills to survive and this world. The parent who has to step out of their chosen profession to home school their child is not much different in my opinion to the one who cannot work because their paraplegic child needs care at home 24/7. Should society pay for a full-time round-the-clock care provider for that family? Maybe so - so that parent can fulfill their potential in the world and have more to life than being a nurse. But do you see that happening in America? What works is advocating for raising awareness of how that gifted child is similar to (not different or superior to) any other kid who is suffering under the school's roof - so they are met with EMPATHY and not ridicule. If there was a reasonable way for all children to get their needs met in the traditional classroom I am all for it – and I have dreamed of moving to Finland. Perhaps you are a better champion for the 2% highly gifted population because frankly I never have had enough energy to fight an un-winnable battle or the audacity to ask a teacher to fully accommodate my child's special extraordinary needs when they had hardly enough time, energy or resources to accommodate kids in the classroom who couldn't read or do math on grade level. The elitist’s cry sounds like this: “My child might be the next Einstein, Lincoln, Jobs or Picasso, so meet their needs!” In actuality, these men did not reach their achievement levels due to their public educations! Google says they are not interested in SAT scores or GPAs as these markers do not equate to success in their company. 10% of their hired and highly paid workforce did not even graduate from High School! What I am trying to say is there is a different path and it is highly possible these highly gifted children and their parents will do better to realize they will not ever really "fit in" or get their needs met in the ways society traditionally meets children's needs because they are profoundly different than the norm and that is OK! Stop blaming the system for not meeting their needs and teach that child how to use their strengths to overcome their struggles living in a world that will likely never fully understand them. In THAT they are not so profoundly different at all.AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-46159178805908926402014-03-22T13:11:55.643-04:002014-03-22T13:11:55.643-04:00Thinking gifted classes are elitist is like saying...Thinking gifted classes are elitist is like saying someone else's success means that you are a failure. Sounds like you need to reexamine your self-esteem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-44268360180468248682014-03-22T12:59:20.392-04:002014-03-22T12:59:20.392-04:00The two comments above are one long rant by the wa...The two comments above are one long rant by the way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-24582619804480052232014-03-22T12:54:24.227-04:002014-03-22T12:54:24.227-04:00In regards to the arts and athletics, those talent...In regards to the arts and athletics, those talents will be identified and rewarded by those who understand and can help students develop those talents. There are talent-based scholarships, athletic scholarships, and music scholarships. All of them require auditions. Also, every college or education program requires EXTRACURRICULARS and a student A with a 4.0 and in incredible piano talent will always be chosen over student B with just a 4.0. AP and IB classes are offered in the arts - in language and culture, art history, studio arts, and music theory. For both athletics and music, there are competitions and awards through the public school system like All-State band or Nationals for athetics. It is unfortunate that not all talents can be funded through the school system, however, when students graduate all talents will become valuable and valued by those who actually understand what is required of developing them. (ie the admissions program to a Piano performance program at a college will hear a student's audition and be able to rate and reward it accurately) If you are dissatisfied with your child's education, you should look into finding the best opportunity for them. My family moved so that my brothers and I could switch into a school which better addressed our educational needs.<br /><br />Do we need gifted programs? YES. Gifted programs allow students to save the country money, pursue their education at a more comfortable rate, and achieve their greatest potential. Also, gifted students often cause trouble in average classrooms because they get bored, Gifted kids often struggle with being bullied or having poor social skills, and gifted classrooms allow them to be around their peers. Lastly, gifted students have the greatest potential to change the world and do incredible things (a huge RESPONSIBILITY) and it is in the best interest of the country and the world to allow them to progress at a faster rate. (Again, like Hussein Bolt)<br /><br />Elitism? Gifted students may have a higher IQ, but that does not mean that we all do not have our weaknesses as well. I could never compete with my gifted friend's ability to play jazz music or my gifted baby brother's ability to play soccer. (In fact I am awful at athletics) In addition, gifted students as a whole often struggle with inadequate interpersonal skills (which is why gifted students also need to interact with each other and average students). And lastly, we have elite sports teams and elite music groups in schools. We even have honor societies for high-achieving students. There is nothing wrong with elite academic groups.<br /><br />Finally, if you are not intimately familiar with something, please do not attempt to post or say anything about it. Especially something that could negatively affect people who are actually affected by the situation. You only succeed in embarrassing yourself, offending the people actually involved, and - in this case - minimizing the talents and gifts of other people.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-19581725049558984892014-03-22T12:53:35.309-04:002014-03-22T12:53:35.309-04:00Anyone who disagrees with this argument has clearl...Anyone who disagrees with this argument has clearly had no significant interaction with a gifted child and is ignorant of the definition and implications of the word "gifted".<br /><br />For those who don't understand, "gifted" is ENTIRELY based on IQ. The identification test is an IQ test. Being gifted is entirely INDEPENDENT of the child's aptitudes (music, math, arts) and learning style (visual, auditory, kinesthetic). The identification as gifted means that a child has the capability to understand, accept, process, and apply information at a SIGNIFICANTLY higher rate when the information is presented in their learning style. This is especially true when the information is in the child's area of strength. The average student needs information to be presented to them 6-8 times before they fully comprehend and remember it, while gifted children only need 3-4 repetitions. So when the average student is complaining on the third day that all the work is just busy work, the gifted student has been bored in the back of the class since the day before.<br /><br />How do I know? I WAS IDENTIFIED AS GIFTED IN KINDERGARTEN. My mother was a trained and certified gifted teacher. My brothers are both gifted and I was in a gifted class with nine other gifted students. I am a visual learner with strengths in mathematics and english. My younger brother is an auditory learner with strengths in math and computing. My baby brother is a kinesthetic learner with strengths in language and athetics. One of my best friends is an incredible musician who was accepted to the country's best jazz music program. AND WE ARE ALL GIFTED. Gifted comes in a variety of types and is simply a POTENTIAL. <br /><br />If I was not accepted into a gifted program and allowed to accelerate my learning, I would have learned at the same rate as every other student, average or not. Success is a balance of hard work and potential. Those who work hard always have the potential to beat out those with the greatest innate potential. However, those gifted students with the greatest potential who make themselves work just as hard - and often harder - have the ability to reach even greater success. This is just like Hussein Bolt vs the average person. If the average person trained incredibly hard they could make it into the Olympics. However, Hussein Bolt was born with a natural aptitude and trained that aptitude even harder to become the fastest man in the world. But just imagine if he had never started running, or worse had been told on the track team that he was only allowed to run as fast as the second or third fastest person on the team.<br /><br />Are gifted programs a drain on the system? I skipped two grades in math and one grade in english. My brother skipped a grade in math and a grade in science. I was the youngest member of my graduating class. My brother is graduating a year early. That means both of us SAVED the country tax dollars. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1613571024274471949.post-64041151996253641752014-03-22T12:36:01.018-04:002014-03-22T12:36:01.018-04:00My point is that it is elitist to expect special t...My point is that it is elitist to expect special treatment for advanced cognitive abilities but not champion better environments for ALL children. So many other kids also appear bored - but for different reasons - but likely their needs are not being met either. There are many students with stealthy LDs who have a high enough verbal IQ to mask it but are not considered "gifted" because they are in the orange range and are offered no real assistance with what makes their road so difficult. Cognitively gifted children do not have a corner on the market for boredom or behavior issues due to their needs not being met. The gifted athlete might be bored because they would rather be running. Do you think they should be allowed to run an hour every day on the playground? The introvert might appear off task or misbehaving because their classroom favors those with extroverted personalities and they internally feel totally lost and act out. My daughter is twice exceptional and has sometimes been considered "lazy" for not doing her homework but I was right there to tell the teacher we were not interested in her "grade" but in her mental health and her intrinsic learning which was obviously happening despite her poor homework performance. I specifically taught her teachers what kind of praise was what she needed (and spelled it out on her 504 plan) - for her to do ANY homework was to be seen as a triumph because it was if she wrote that paper with her teeth! It was my job to raise their awareness. Shame on any parent who sits by while their child is completely ignored or humiliated! I never thought my daughter was any better than anyone else or was a martyr for oh how what a difficult row to hoe she had navigating through society's deep sea of average-ness. She will be hard pressed to find a world that always accommodates to her needs, so we taught her to be resilient, we got her extra help with her LD issues, we expected her to show compassion for all of her classmates, we encouraged her to use her strengths to overcome her normal uncomfortable feelings because EVERYONE has to learn to cope with feeling different or know what to do in the moment when they are bored or misunderstood. When the environment was so invalidating that it continually negatively affected her mental health we pulled the plug and moved her to another environment. AWIVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03957404246801288347noreply@blogger.com